About the episode | Listen to the episode | Meet Madison Tanczos | Episode transcript
About the episode
"I just think it's so beautiful how Jesus put these people and this community in my life, because I hope that it's helping others, but it's also helping me." As Madison Tanczos drew closer to God through her faith, she began to see a new challenge rising up to meet her. Scrupulosity began to manifest in her life and it led her to encounter some very intense struggles in her faith. But despite her battle with scrupulosity, Madison saw this as a confirmation of how she was taking her faith seriously, and she wanted to find a way to help other people like her. Through Madison's vulnerability and gift of creating, she started Salve Maria Co., a platform that allows her to share her art as well as share more openly about scrupulosity with others. In this episode, Madison and I talk about scrupulosity in her life, the evolution of Salve Maria Co., and the beautiful ways God empowers us in our struggles for His greater glory.
Listen to the episode
Meet Madison Tanczos
Madison Tanczos is a college student who is passionate about the Catholic Faith. She runs an Instagram page and Etsy shop called Salve Maria Co. where she sells rosaries, stickers, and more. Madison is passionate about sharing her faith as well as her journey with scrupulosity and OCD within her faith life.
00:10 RACHEL WONG: This is The Feminine Genius Podcast, a podcast that celebrates all women of God and their unique genius. I'm your host, Rachel Wong.
00:30 RACHEL: As Madison Tanczos drew closer to God through her faith, she began to see a new challenge rising up to meet her. Scrupulosity began to manifest in her life and it led her to encounter some very intense struggles in her faith. But despite this battle, Madison saw this as a confirmation that she was taking her faith seriously, and she wanted to find a way to help other people like her. Through Madison's vulnerability and love of creating, she started Salve Maria Co., a platform that allows her to share her art as well as share more openly about scrupulosity with others. In this episode, Madison and I talk about scrupulosity in her life, the evolution of Salve Maria Co., and the beautiful ways God empowers us in our struggles for His greater glory.
01:30 RACHEL: Hi Madison!
01:32 MADISON TANCZOS: Hi!
01:33 RACHEL: How are you today?
01:34 MADISON: I'm good, how are you?
01:36 RACHEL: I'm doing so, so well. Thank you and thank you for joining me today onThe Feminine Genius Podcast. It's such a joy to finally be able to meet you. I know we swapped a couple messages back and forth, so thanks for being here today!
01:47 MADISON: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's great to finally see you!
01:51 RACHEL: As it is in the COVID world, just being able to see each other, even through Zoom but I'm cognizant of the fact that we are like a continent apart so maybe first off we'll get you to introduce yourself and share a little bit about what you're doing right now.
02:04 MADISON: Yeah, so I'm Madison, and I'm currently a freshman at a university in Pittsburgh, and I'm studying Rehabilitation Sciences and planning on going to PA [Physician Assistant] school, as of now, that might change. [laughs] But yeah, so pretty much my day to day life right now is just full of classes but also getting really involved in my Newman Center. There's some FOCUS missionaries that I'm really involved with and Bible studies so that's pretty much my day to day life. But yeah it's been really good and I love it, so!
02:37 RACHEL: That's awesome! And we're recording this at the beginning of March. I just think back to my time in post-secondary and this is around the time where things kinda get crazy, so I'm extra grateful for you to carve out your time and share a little bit of your story today!
02:52 MADISON: Of course, thank you for having me.
02:55 RACHEL: Yeah! So you mentioned that, you know, you're getting involved right now like with your Newman Center and you, there are some FOCUS missionaries that are around on campus, which I find to be really awesome just to have the faith community. And I was wondering if you could share with our listeners a little bit of your own personal faith journey .aAd I'll note also and I noted this to you just before we got started, that you're in your freshman year and I'm already so inspired whenever I meet women like yourself who are so young and also so convicted in their faith at such a young age. So yeah if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit of your own faith journey.
03:32 MADISON: Yeah, of course, thank you so much. So I'm a cradle Catholic, I've always been Catholic. I grew up in a good Catholic family. And I think the funny thing is is that I've always been in a Catholic school until college, but I really didn't understand what it meant to truly be Catholic until pretty much the end of my Catholic schooling. So I've always gone to Mass on Sundays, and I knew that the faith was important to me. I even remember like little things in my life like St. Therese has been in my life since I can remember. So little things like that I knew that was really important to me. However, I didn't see the depth of the faith at the time.
And so, in grade school my faith was pretty stagnant, you know, I went to mass but that was pretty much it. Like, I prayed some times, but I thought I was doing really good. I was like, "Oh, I'm a devout Catholic!" You know? But I didn't even realize how much more, and how much more beauty there is to the faith. So that was my kind of grade school years, kind of stagnant, but as I got into high school, I was blessed with a really good theology department. They really taught the faith well and they taught it truthfully. They didn't water it down, but they taught it in a way that was very intriguing to the students and they made it not seem as a set of rules. Many times theology teachers can fall into that like, you know, it's just set of rules, which is not. It's a beautiful relationship with Jesus. But they really made that transparent in their teaching. And so that really started to pull me in more.
After my junior year, I went on a retreat called Notre Dame Vision. It's similar to a Steubenville retreat, I believe, and it completely changed my life. It was a second time that I've been on this retreat, but for some reason, it hit me like so much deeper, and I believe it was because of my small group leader, he was just, you know, a normal Catholic guy, but for some reason, his witness the faith was so extraordinary that like for some reason just changed my life. I think I was just seeing for the first time how you don't have to be somebody like crazy or extraordinary, you know, to be faithful like you can just be like me and have an extraordinary faith, and so that really inspired me. So ever since then, I've never been the same. I kind of, at that moment, had I guess like a reversion deeper into the faith. That's when I really started to see the beauty of the whole faith, not just surface level, not just mass, but truly seeing how beautiful the Catholic faith is in all of its aspects.
Yeah, so I came home from that retreat and I was like, on fire for the faith, loving it, like you know, living it up on a retreat high! But that's whenever my like hardest struggle can with scrupulosity. So for those of you who don't know what scrupulosity is, it can be a manifestation of OCD in your faith life. It doesn't have to necessarily be connected with OCD, but many times it is. And it's pretty much where like you obsess over sin, you obsess over whether things are moral or not. And so, at least for me, that manifested in a lot of ways of thinking that I was sinning and then having to go to confession, and then thinking, I did another mortal sin and then running to confession again. At the beginning of my reversion, this is when this really manifested. And so I was dealing with this and thankfully, I didn't know what scrupulosity was. I knew that it was a thing, because I heard it mentioned in one of my classes before, but I didn't really know the extent of it. I had no idea that it was connected to OCD. I was struggling with this, and one day I remember I went to confession at night, like in the evening at some time. And I came home and I was watching TV with my family or something, and I went up to bed and I already thought it was like, I committed another mortal sin and I was freaking out and I was like, trying to find confessions for the next morning, even though I just went that night! And so I was like, "I can't do this anymore!"
So I went to my mom and I was like, "Hey, Like I'm struggling with this, whatever." And I read this article online, when I started to actually look into scrupulosity, I read this article and it like completely described what I was going through. It just like fully described, it put into words that I like couldn't and it had a connection with OCD. And so I started to think, could I have OCD? Because this isn't the first time that OCD like symptoms have come up. And so I was talking to my mom, and she was very supportive so I went to a therapist that was able to diagnose me with OCD. So that was very helpful in the healing process to kind of know what we were attacking. Yeah, so that has been a constant struggle, since it's gotten so much better. But, after my reversion that's when that started. Throughout my senior year of high school, I just really tried to live out the faith well. Definitely quarantine and COVID was very hard with mental health and scrupulosity and whatever. But I was really blessed because coming to college. As I mentioned, I'm a freshman, so my first time coming on campus, for some reason, that brought about so much healing in my scrupolosity. I was able to feel so much freedom, and be able to actually live out my faith so much more. I was just trapped in this like spiral of scrupulosity, but God was able to kind of heal me with that through a change, you know, change from quarantine, kind of living a little bit more like a normal person, I guess, you know but um, that's my faith story and I'm just really grateful for the reversion that God gave me because not everybody gets that grace, and He's just show me that my life has just been so joyful ever since, and even amidst the struggles like it's just so beautiful. 09:49 RACHEL: Wow! Yeah, there is so much to unpack there, and I think first off, I want to also just relate one to one heart to heart as a fellow COVID grad, I graduated from university also in COVID. And you know I was grateful that I graduated from high school many years ago now but I know how hard it must feel to not be able to have that because of COVID and the restrictions! So I just want to affirm you for that. That, you know, you may have lost out on a pretty big checkpoint in your life, so I just want to say that that doesn't go unnoticed, and I'm so thankful that you were able to like live out this joy that you were describing: this joy, this independence, and also find that healing now that you're in this new phase of life. And my hope is that all of this COVID stuff will blow over to a point where you will be able to walk across the stage probably with your degree at the end of your university career, so that's really wonderful.
10:50 MADISON: Thank you.
10:50 RACHEL: Of course, of course! Yeah, it's, it's a hard thing to miss out on so I really feel for that. And I think the other big thing that stuck out to me, at least, is I love that you describe that process of reversion. I think many of us, like myself, I'm a cradle Catholic as well and it's a really grace-filled thing to go through, as you described. Not many people get the chance to. And what I find so beautiful is that in that moment where you had experienced that deepening, and I'm not sure if there were previous maybe manifestations, like early manifestations of scrupulosity prior to your reversion, but what I find so beautiful is that, you know, you go through that reversion and then after that, as it usually happens sometimes in varying cases for people is that we go through reversion, and then suddenly it seems like something new, like there's a new challenger that shows up into our lives. But we have this grace from God, we have this new healing, and from there it's kind of like this new test. It's like, "Okay how do I go about this? Do I go about this on my own kind of reverting back to my old ways, or am I able to hold on to God?"
So I was wondering if we could maybe zoom into that part of your life, as well, and just like talk about those first moments when you kind of, you're coming from this super high like you were saying. And you experienced this scrupulosity and trying to understand. What was that like to maybe receive these new things, like these symptoms and these things that were going on, and being like, "God, like I thought going into a deepening of faith! Like why are you testing me in that way?"
12:30 MADISON: Yeah, so I think whenever I came back from the retreat, you know, I was obviously really happy and I was on that super high. And then I felt this urge to go to confession one more time because I was like, "Alright, this is my new life, you know, I'm gonna really start a clean slate and have a fruitful life and my new reversion." And so I went, but then a few days later, I believe it was, I just started feeling like I did something, and then I needed to go again. And I was like, "What?" Like, I was so confused because it was like, I was trying to, for example, pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet more. And I would be praying but then these like intrusive thoughts, or these, you know, anxieties or obsessions would come into my head while I'm praying this and I'm like, "I'm just trying to pray!" Like, you know? I am thinking I'm like sinning while I'm praying like how does this go together? Like, I can't be free in my faith. I didn't understand why this was happening until obviously later I got diagnosed. But I was like, "Why is this happening to me, if I'm just trying to come closer to you?" I was like, "God please heal me!" You know?
And so I think what I realized was, although the OCD was very like impacting in like a negative way. It was very hard to like get through and to kind of push through and see God. It, in a way, helped show me that I was taking my faith seriously, which is a weird aspect because I realized that—I only found out that I had OCD right before my senior year. But looking back in my life, I can see so many ways, which I've had OCD for a long time, and I can tell, looking back, that it attacked what was most important to me. I was competitive Irish dancer for a while, and that was like, very important to me and be training a lot of the time, like I'd be thinking about it constantly. My OCD attacked that. It attacked health—I would always get worried if I was going to get sick, you know, germs. hand washing all of that. And so I came to realize like, "Oh, okay, like my OCD seems to attack what's most important to me so I guess that makes sense that after this reversion, when I really put God at the center of my life, this is why this is happening." And so I think that helped me get out of the sense of "God, why is this happening to me?" and just be like, more of, "Oh, okay. It's because I'm taking my faith seriously, and although this is a really hard trial, at least I know like, I'm giving it my all."
It's kind of like a funny thing because it's a terrible experience to go through, but it was almost affirming in that way, being like, okay, I'm finally on the right track. I'm no longer worried about my Irish dance competitions. I'm no longer putting that at the top, and finally putting God at the top. And so, yeah, that definitely was hard to like get through because it's very hard to see God as merciful, whenever you have like scrupulosity just because you can focus on the Father being so just and He's perfectly just and perfectly merciful. But I just think that's kind of funny because although it's a really hard trial, it did affirm me in a way to see okay I'm finally at least on the right track.
16:13 RACHEL: And what a level headed approach! And they say that just because I think, you know, whether it is a mental illness, like you know, scrupulosity and OCD in your case, or for any of those listening, like the suffering aspect of it, it can be so easy to kind of throw that back at God and be like, "But I serve you, I give you my all. Why are you still permitting bad things to happen?" And I'm sure there must have been instances of just like, frustration and really going back at God, and be like, "Why are you doing this?" But you've identified something that is so important to where it's like, we know that the devil tries so hard to take us away from God. Any entry point, he will try and block it. And the fact that you were so keenly aware of it—like, I hope that the devil is just shaking right now is is listening to this conversation! Like he cannot get to you because you are so keenly aware of what is most important in your life. Like of course you know, Irish dance and being healthy, those are important but you've put God at the center, and you're just so aware, like, I think that's really the word that's coming to mind, is that you're so aware of who God is and also what the devil will do to try and take you from that. So just want to affirm you and I hope that listeners can, you know, maybe take that to prayer as well and just notice like what are the things that are really important to us? How do we see God in this? And how might the devil be trying to really tear us away? Because that's really his sole mission here, so thanks for that, that's really beautiful.
17:49 MADISON: No, thank you!
17:50 RACHEL: So I know that we kind of chatted through Instagram before, and I want to dive into that because I think there's a really nice parallel between, you know, what we're just talking about with the scrupulosity, because you have a wonderful platform that I'm sure you, you share pretty vulnerably about the things that you're going through on there. But also, you have a wonderful talent and a wonderful gift for art, and you make beautiful rosaries! So I'd love to dive into your business, your Instagram, Salve Maria Co., and I was wondering if you could share a little bit of the story behind that, because I know that it's gone through a bit of an evolution as well.
18:33 MADISON: Yes! Yeah, so Salve Maria Co. actually started in high school and it was just a little kind of Etsy shop. I didn't think it was going to be anything too craz.y too big. I mean, not that it's anything too crazy now, but I started making scrunchies actually, just for my friends at school. And they seem to really like them and I'm loved doing arts and crafts, so I was like, "I'm gonna make an Etsy shop!" I made an Instagram for it and it was originally called Scrunchies for Good, just because I wanted to like try to give portion of the proceeds to some sort of charity or organization, so that's why it was called Scrunchies for Good.
Over time, I started just kind of playing around with other, you know, crafts and whatever and then I started making rosaries and again my friends just were like, "Oh, like these are awesome, like you should sell these!" And I was like, "Oh, maybe I will." And so I was like well, if I'm selling them, my Etsy shop is going to need a new name. So I decided on Salve Maria Co. That's when really everything took off, because I started sharing more about the faith, instead of just Etsy shop and whatever and just started sharing more about myself. It's funny 'cause scrupulosity, I think, kind of prohibited me from really sharing my faith, because I was so worried about, "Oh, like I'm being so prideful I'm being, you know, like I'm saying, look at me and whatever." But then finally I was like, Jesus gave me this platform for a reason why not share His goodness? So that's why I really decided to start sharing more about the faith, and not just about, you know, the shop, but really trying to transform it into a community and not just something that I'm trying to sell. That's really how Salve Maria Co. kind of took off. I've been so blessed with it. And so, I just think it's so beautiful, how like Jesus has put these people and this community in my life, because I hope that it's helping others, but it's also helping me and helping me find this community and it's just so beautiful and I'm really blessed for it. 20:49 RACHEL: You touch on something that I was thinking of just prior to us even starting this conversation, was just like that relationship between being able to share your scrupulosity. Because I absolutely agree, like having a platform I think is one thing, and so I love what you're doing! And I was very curious, like I said, jumping into this conversation like what that relationship was like because I know that sometimes, even for me, like if I share about my own experiences with depression or anxiety, there is a bit of like you know after I hit post, kind of this, did I share too much? Or what will people think? Or will people think that I'm kind of bragging or just almost capitalizing on my suffering as a way to gain more intrigue. I don't know if you have any thoughts or just experiences around that.
21:39 MADISON: Yeah, definitely. And I can relate to that so much, just because after I started sharing more about the faith, I hadn't really shared anything about scrupulosity in general. But it came to a point where I was like this is an aspect in my journey, so why not share it, bring more awareness to it in a way that I'm not bragging about it like you were saying, but just trying to bring awareness and light to it. And so that definitely was a struggle for me, just as you were saying, I felt that exact same feeling like, "Am I doing this for the wrong reasons? Am I oversharing? Do people even care?" But I finally just decided like, |Okay, I've gone through this, and it was hard, and other people are going through it, and it's hard. So let's form a community!"
When I started posting about it and just talking about it more. I'm just really grateful because I got so much support. As you know, it's definitely a vulnerable thing to share, just because it can be awkward, it can be like, oh, like what are people gonna think? But God has really shown me it's nothing to be ashamed of, it's nothing that should feel awkward. It's a hard, but beautiful in a way, suffering that Jesus has put into my life and other people's lives. And maybe He put it in my life so I could help other people get through it. Why would I say no to that? And so, yeah I really relate to that because even going along with scrupulosity and like anxiety like you were saying, it's wanting to share your experience, but then having those anxieties over sharing your experience! Which is like kind of a weird, you know, cycle but it's just beautiful to kind of break out of that and see like the bigger picture of, this is hard, but I'm sharing this for the right reason and it's part of God's plan, somehow, even if I don't see it.
23:43 RACHEL: Yeah, that idea of God giving us unique and individual crosses, because I think that's one aspect of the feminine genius that I've been really discovering a lot recently, especially in this time of quarantine, that it's true. God has given us unique and beautiful talents and gifts—so for yourself, the work with your hands and being able to produce such beautiful art. But alongside that, that very unique struggle, that is, you know it's unique to you and your life. And it's true that probably other people suffer from these things as well but how it impacts you is so different, how it impacts your faith life is so different. And those two things, they really do go hand in hand like we can't have the resurrection without the crucifixion, and this idea that you're able to, you know, you talk about bringing this community of people together. And you also mentioned a little bit about support so I was curious to know like what the response has been like in terms of people coming across your accounts and having conversations with folks like what is that response been like for you?
24:50 MADISON: Yeah, it's honestly been, I think that's been a part in my healing process, because... so I made this scrupulosity group chat kind of thing where if they're struggling with scrupulosity, they can DM me and I'll add them to this group chat, just so we can have a community, and just so people can know that they're not alone. Because I remember in my times of like really intense struggle, I didn't really know that many people going through it. It just felt very isolating. And so this community and this group chat, even if it's virtual you know it's still that support system that we all need. And so it's been so beautiful, because I think especially in my own experience with scrupulosity, I tend to have a lot of trouble like seeing that, you know, maybe God is like happy or like delighted in me, or like, "Good job, Madiso." It's always like, "Well, you didn't do enough. You didn't do enough," in my head. And that's obviously not how God is, like He loves and He delights in us. Soit's really hard for me to see that. but through these people who've reached out to me, and through being able to help each other because they helped me too.
It's been so healing. I can see that God is happy with my work, and what I'm doing, and that's something that is very hard for me to see, but even just in the response of people to my—whatever it is, my postings or them, you know, wanting to get added to the group chat or whatever it is. It's just so beautiful, being able to kind of just get involved in their faith life and have them involved in mine and it's just so beautiful and it's been like so healing for me, and I'm hoping for them, so yeah.
26:37 RACHEL: And what comes to mind is in scripture how we talk about, once we draw things into the light, how much healing can come about because we're not isolating, we're not keeping things in the dark and just kind of ignoring it and hoping that it'll go away. And I love how it's been through a process of your own journey with God, how you've been able to experience that healing, and then going even deeper and now journeying with other women, and going out of your way to do so because I'm sure that you are a busy young woman, doing school, you know, you're running your business, you're running this account, you got your own things going on. But the fact that you're able to take the time out of your day, out of your life, to journey with other women I think is so extraordinary! And, you know, what a gift that is to the church what a gift that is to other women who may be struggling with very similar things that you're going through. So that's really incredible, Madison. That's awesome.
27:35 MADISON: Thank you, thank you!
27:37 RACHEL: Yeah, and I was wondering, to just, you know, for anyone who is listening, you know, maybe they know that they have scrupulosity or maybe they don't know. They haven't maybe come to realize it or recognize it. For anyone who might be going through something like this, and they're worried about, like you said how God sees them, whether or not they will ever be enough for Him. What advice or encouragement, do you have for those listeners?
28:05 MADISON: Yeah, I think, first of all just remembering the simple but profound fact that Jesus loves you so much. He thirsts for you, like, He doesn't just love you in a way that we can think of it, but He loves you despite your sins, despite your failings. He loves you so intimately and so fully. And one of the things that have helped me is—I can't remember who said this—but it was something to the effect of "all the sins of the world are a raindrop compared to the sun of God's mercy, and when that raindrop gets close to the sun, it just evaporates." And just realizing that, no matter how shameful we feel with our scrupulosity, no matter how dirty, no matter how terrible we feel and we're making ourselves feel through that, Jesus cleanses us, and He knows that we're going through this. And it's also, I would remember, it's a special cross that He gave you, me and everybody does have very unique crosses but think of it in a way of almost being grateful for it that He knows that you can handle this. And it's hard and it's suffering. But it's almost—I've heard it described as the spiritual stigmata where it is so piercing, it's so torturous, in a way. And describing it in a way of the spiritual stigmata or the Agony in the Garden, it can be so beautiful because you can seem so distant, with all of your sins, but coming in relating to Jesus in that is so fruitful, and just remembering His profound love for you.
29:57 RACHEL: That's such a beautiful truth as well and just throughout our conversation, Madison, the saint that kept coming to mind was St. Therese of Lisieux, because I know that, you know, in her very young age ad growing up in the time that she did in her world. There was just so many forces that were going against you know her own heart, her own mind and just feeling like, "I desired to do so many things for the Lord" but know the culture and her little way and... but then also just like the quote that you shared earlier about how much brilliance there is like in the sun of God, how much brilliance there is in God's love and how He's able to just really wrap us all up, our sins, our best work, no matter what it is. Like He just takes all of it and nothing matters as long as we love him, because we know that He loves us. So, I'm just so grateful for that reflection and I know that, it'll be a point of comfort for those who listens so I appreciate that.
And in terms of, you know, as we reflect on what we've just talked about today, like when you think about your own feminine genius, how have you seen your feminine genius flourish throughout your own life?
31:06 MADISON: Yeah, I think definitely, I've just seen it grow in mercy towards others, as well as towards myself, as well as humility. Because it takes both, you know, mercy and humility, to be able to heal from it. And just realizing that I have to be merciful to one another as Jesus teaches us, but also to myself! If Jesus is forgiving me, then why shouldn't I forgive me? And so, also that humility of realizing that I can't decide whether I'm forgiven or not, but Jesus decides, and He's chosen to forgive me if I repent. And so growing in those two virtues towards myself, towards others. I think that's been a way that my feminine genius in a way has grown, but all through Jesus. Like, none of it is for me, it's all from the grace of God and everything I have comes from Him. I'm just so grateful and blessed to have these graces in my life. 32:13 RACHEL: Wow, that's amazing! And that's very beautiful, yeah. Like, love God, as you love yourself and love others as well it's the, the two great commandments that Jesus gave us during His time on earth. So, you know Madison, thank you for being a witness and a testament to that but also to the real profound truth that even in suffering, that God loves us so so much, but He chooses to forgive us because he's so merciful, and that we can do all things through Him. Like, He gives us that strength and He gives us that special grace to carry our unique cross like you said, so thank you so much for your time today.
32:55 MADISON: No, thank you so much for having me! It's been so great. 33:00 RACHEL: And Madison, would you be able to lead us in a closing prayer?
33:04 MADISON: Of course. In the name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Dear Jesus, thank you so much for our conversation today. I pray that you can please help penetrate the hearts of all the listeners with Your love and Your mercy, and to help everybody know that they're so fully and intimately loved. And I pray that we can all grow closer to you, amidst our trials and our sufferings, even when it seems like we are so distant from you. I asked this in your name, amen.
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
33:45 RACHEL: Thanks Madison!
33:46 MADISON: Thank you!
33:54 RACHEL: Thank you again to Madison Tanczos for joining us on The Feminine Genius Podcast and sharing her story with us today! You can follow Madison on Instagram @salvemariaco, and frrom there you can find her Etsy shop as well as a number of resources to learn more about scrupulosity. I’ve put this in the episode description below.
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